theredeye 发布于十月 28, 2013 分享 发布于十月 28, 2013 翻譯完成，有部份怪怪不通順處，煩請高手斧正 Just as they did with yesterday's vision changes, Riot has posted an overview of the upcoming preseason changes for the support role - including changes to how several support champions will scale with items, updated gp/5 items that "reward effective support play", Assist streaks, and much more! Continue reading for more info. Here's Xelnath with the scoop: "Hello Summoners, I'm here today to talk about supports - those zero-CS players who devote themselves (and their income) to warding my gank paths and protecting their team without any tangible character growth in the later parts of the game. As a merciless predator who feeds on the lowly support, I'd prefer to have a low-income, no-item target to prey on in the late game, but as a player and designer... ... fine. Your pleas have reached us. We have crafted a new world with our dark arts. Behold! How are Supports in the present day? First off, let's clarify who we're talking about. There are six roles in League of Legends: mage, assassin, tank, fighter, marksman and support. The current meta in League of Legends usually divvies up these roles into the following positions: top fighter, mid mage, jungler tank (or assassin), bottom marksman and bottom support. However, "support" is a blanket term that covers three overlapping, but different categories: Player who doesn't last hit while sharing a lane Dedicated ward dispenser Support champions While we've come to accept a single player performing all three of these roles, if you look closely, you'll see these roles fight each other: Players who don't last hit but share lane have minimal gold income Warding costs gold and warding power increases dramatically with additional wards placed Warding requires you to move away from your allies constantly Supportive champions want to be near teammates, protecting them From these points, we can see that 0-cs warding duo-lane support players are the poorest players with the highest consumable expenses and the lowest amount of character growth. Duo-laning support players are currently denied the second half of their growth story! What's changing in the preseason? We want both players in a shared lane to experience growth, item choice and the opportunity to get a full set of items. To get there, we are: Increasing the gold income for players who don't last hit Introducing bonus XP in jungle and lane for players who fall significantly behind their teammates Capping possible expenditures on wards per player Giving players access to free vision items, known as Trinkets (Please see Xypherous's vision post for details!) Additionally, new income comes in several forms: Masteries that grant bonus gold to players in a shared lane Improvements to our GP/5 items that reward effective support play Increased assist rewards for players who get significantly more assists than kills Increasing income, rewarding effective support play and giving everyone access to a basic vision item encourages team cooperation, rewards supportive players and gives everyone the opportunity to participate in the vision game. Outside of the vision changes, what's happening to address the above? First I'll touch on those assist streaks. We're making it so that players who have significantly more assists than kills will get additional income per assist. If a player does secure a kill, the extra gold from the kill will offset their temporarily decreased gold gain from extra assists. In addition to assist streaks, we're exploring masteries that provide additional early game income and we've added items that allow support players to gain additional income for supporting their allies, taking objectives and setting up team fights. Let's look at a few of the work-in-progress items that I'm talking about: Philosopher's Stone grants gold every 10 seconds. When a nearby ally kills a minion, you earn gold. Executioner's Emblem executes minions below 200 health and grants gold to both you and the nearest ally when you last hit. Your ally gains a small gold bonus on top of this. This effect can happen up to twice a minute. Spellthief's Blade makes it so that your spells and basic attacks against enemy champions grant you gold. It cannot affect the same target more than once every 10 seconds and last hitting an enemy disables this effect for 10 seconds. Access to these items will allow you to specialize your income to fit your playstyle. How does this change my experience as a support player? In a long game, shared lane supports should now expect to be purchasing real items alongside their boots and Sightstone. They'll still have the biggest impact on vision, but now will have combat stats to make them feel like a more full and complete character. A balanced support champion will be splitting their time between warding, helping allies push lanes to take towers and participating in combat to save allies and kill enemies. As a side effect of these changes, we're also taking a close look at core supports: Janna, Sona, Nami, Soraka, Lulu, Taric, etc. Champions designed specifically as supports have historically been balanced to have negligible income so, if left alone with all that gold, they'll either become overtuned mages or be replaced completely by non-support champions who can outscale them in damage once they hit the midgame. Rather than wholesale nerfing these champions, we're looking at opportunities to make their unique aspects scale with AP or other stats. For example, the bonus AD on Janna's shield and the movement speed granted by Nami's passive will now scale with Ability Power. Our hope is that support champions in shared lanes can select AP or CDR items they find appealing. This will, in turn, give them a more distinct identity as champions that excel at helping their teammates and being supportive rather than just dealing more damage. Hopefully this gives all you support players some things to look forward to in preseason. We're going to be aggressively tuning these changes but our core philosophy will remain the same: let every champion in League of Legends experience real growth throughout the game, regardless of their position or role. We'll also be posting this on reddit where we may pass through to clarify some questions. At the start of next week we'll be doing a global recap to follow up with the most up-to-date information from questions around the world! -Xelnath (Wizardlock, Right Hand of the 7th Order of Obsidian Blackfire Ebonstone Dark Witchlords)" ======================================== As I did yesterday, I'll be adding any additional discussion or red posts to this thread as the day goes on. Totally New Items Xelnath also shareda little preview of one of the upcoming , new items: "We are hoping to make sure you have interesting items too. Here's one preview: Martyr's Call: +300 health +10 health regen per 5 Unique Active: Consume 20% of your current health to give 10% of your max health as a shield to target ally." He continued on Martyr's Call, saying: "Tanks are exactly the character class we're targetting with this item. We can increase the HP cost and reduce the shield if Cho'gath becomes the best peeler in the game." Updated Support Items Xelnath also commentedthat the new support items are exclusive and you can only pick up one: "The new gold income items are completely exclusive. These gold income items build in a path to a cool active effect, but the final build retains their gold income mechanic. Once you start one item, you cannot start another item's path unless you sell the other item. E.g. I can buy Philosopher's Pebble, a 375 gold support starting item that gives gold when an ally kills a minion, upgrade it into Philosopher's Stone (850g total) and finally transform it into Shurelia's Reverie. However, if I own Philosopher's Pebble, I can't buy Executioner's Emblem or Spellthief's Blade." He also clarifiedthat this applies to item upgrades as well: "Once you pick up Shurelia's Reverie (which now grants passive gp/5 and the bonus gold on minion death) you cannot start a Spellthief's Blade. We originally did not have this limit. Then Madlife and H4ckerv2 came to the office and broke the game by having more gold than any other champion in the game by min-maxing the support items. " As for their location in the shop, he noted: "These items now have their own shop category and you can only buy 1 of them." When asked why you can only buy one instead of making the gold passive unique, he commented: "If we did this, it would look WEIRD. Philo: +hp regen +mana regen UNIQUE Passive - Scavenger: Get Gold from minion deaths. (Purchasing Philosopher's Stone prevents Pickpocket and Lootshare items from working. The order of items purchased matters.) That's an unwieldy and confusing tooltip. Locking out the items is far clearer. Besides, there are NOT GOOD GAINS from stacking these items. They all provide regen stats. Woop. Stacking those into the midgame is not a smart plan. Instead, by making them exclusive we can make the actives significantly sexier." As for the non support member of a duo bot buying an Executioner's Emblem in an attempt increase their gold income, he commented: "We tried this out yesterday and found it to be a fun and teamwork driven lane, that makes both players feel better about working together. Because the stats on Executioner's Emblem are not optimized for ADC characters, we do not expect this to become dominant - since picking Emblem too early means you will lose in head-to-head trades. [backcolor=yellow]So we're watching this optimistically as a fall-back pattern for lanes that are losing to a snowballing ADC or support[/backcolor]." He also mentionedfor Executioner's Emblem: "The ADC will receive gold equal to the kill plus 5. So they get more gold for coordinating with you." On reddit, he shareda few more tidbits: "Yes, the philo passive gold income will be removed or reduced, so you don't get free money for not being in lane. Kages is being replaced by spellblade. Executioner's Emblem is a proc that triggers when you basic attack with an ally around. This is designed to make it so that supports can help ADCs last hit or the ADC can buy the item, completely control the lane minion flow and funnel gold into the support. Pickpocket mastery still exists. Build Paths: * Philo turns into Shurelia's Active + CDR * Kages turns into Shard of True Ice - active now usable on enemies * Executioner's Emblem turns into an item that allows you to sacrifice your health to create a shield on an ally (long cooldown)" To clarify on Executioner's Emblem - "When a support last hits with Executioner's Emblem - both the ADC and support get the gold from the last hit. In fact, the ADC gets a small bonus since he had to coordinate with the support." As for melee supports having a harder time with some of the new items, he commented: "We will probably need to adjust items for melee supports, much as we did for Pickpocket. Melee supports have been pretty feast or famine in lane though - so we're keeping an eye on this for now. Help us test it out and we'll fix this up in preseason." Changes to old items On Twin Shadows new build path, he commented: "Twin Shadows no longer builds out of Kage's Pick. As a result it has had its price adjusted (slightly reduced I think, but I won't promise that remains if it remains strong)" He also notednone of the gp/5 items will build into items that don't generate gold: "Philosopher's Stone, Kage's Pick and Emblem of Valor have been removed as a component from all items in the game that do not grant alternate gold income. We've replaced those components with ones we felt was appropriate. E.g. Will of the Ancients now builds from a Blasting Wand + Hextech Revolver" Other When asked about how these changes and items will work with Kill Lanes ( think J4 / Xin Zhao bottom ),Socratocracy noted: "I'm glad you brought this up, because this is something we've been concerned about internally as well. We've seen Leona experience much success with the new system, especially if she can pull ahead in a lane. One of the goals of this system change was to improve the viability of other supports. Now we're seeing Leona and J4 see more success as supports in that they are rewarded more for generating kills early on than they currently are. This may be a bit too snowbally, and is something we'll be watching closely. [backcolor=yellow]However, one thing to keep in mind is that in order to reap the full benefits of the improved support gold generation, champions will need to invest heavily in the Utility tree, which is intended to be a check on, say, Pantheon or Rengar from being able to zone out a lane and come out of lane with a substantial amount of gold[/backcolor]. We're continuing to test champions and "kill lanes" like what you've mentioned internally and determine whether or not the new items and gold flow for supports shifts things such that you're better off running Rengar/Pantheon than a traditional support, which hasn't been the case in our testing so far. We want to increase the number of supports that are viable with these new systems, not invalidate the viability of traditional supports. With Trinkets assisting with more early game vision as well, it's not as easy for "sits in a bush and kills you when you get close" champions to zone a traditional bottom lane composition. We've tried things such as Annie/Brand and Zyra/Kha'Zix, and have found that the "traditional" bot lane now has the itemization options to allow them to farm aggressively and harass the "kill" lane. In other words, we haven't found any specific "kill lanes" consistently do well internally any more so than traditional ones. That being said, if we're off-the-mark in our testing and find that traditional supports are falling behind, as Xelnath mentioned in the bottom part his original post, we're currently working on having the utility of traditional supports scale with items (Janna's shield granting more AD based on her AP being one of these explorations). This should provide additional help in case traditional supports feel like they're being outclassed. We're continuing to test these kinds of "kill lanes" internally, and are definitely interested in specific lanes you're concerned about. I'd love to hear some of your suggestions on fun, interesting, and awesome lane combinations that you guys think would thrive under the new income generation systems?" 链接到点评
theredeye 发布于十月 28, 2013 作者 分享 发布于十月 28, 2013 翻譯完成，不過有些怪怪的地方我會用黃筆畫出，請高手斧正. ------------原來排版亂掉是砍文字的時候，有的時候會殘留指令，而指令本身又會自我完整化，就導致排版錯亂…-------- 從How are Supports in the present day? 開始翻譯…前面都是一些前情提要之類的廢話 --------------虛線內的東西代表我個人觀點--------------------------------- （括號內代表翻譯相關。也許是我英文不夠好，也許是新增物品尚無中文翻譯，只能暫譯。也許是本來就沒有講清楚） 本文開始 回顧現在的輔助： 首先，我們要明確定義我們所討論的角色。在 lol 有六種定位：法師、殺手、坦克、戰士、射手、還有輔助。目前 lol 的主流打法一般包括以下幾個位置：上路戰士、中路法師、打野坦克（殺手）、以及下路射手與輔助。 但是，輔助實際上包含了三個不同的職能： 同一路，但不拿CS的玩家 積極的插眼 輔助英雄 當我們接受這些職能的時候，我們會發現這些要求彼此衝突。 不打小兵的玩家只有基本收入。 插眼要錢，而且每一個眼的效果隨著眼的數量急遽的上升。（實在很想用具有規模經濟帶過去，不過想想不是每個人都是經濟相關類科，還是算了） 插眼需要角色離開隊友 輔助需要在隊友旁邊才有作用 從以上，我們可以發現雙人線的輔助，是（經濟上）最可憐的玩家。有著最高的消耗品花費，與最低的角色成長。雙人線輔助目前發育僅有（其他角色的）一半。 -------------------------------老實說，對於第一點，眼應該由誰插。這點上來說，考慮的不是地圖上需要有多少眼。而是考慮到裝備具有規模經濟（例：攻速*攻擊力*暴擊率*暴擊力，導致第二件大裝的效果要大於第一件大裝。防禦也是。），所以眼的花費應該集中在一個人身上最有效率所造成的。至於輔助與插眼者的衝突，老實說，除了輔助是單挑力最弱的反而需要單人衝進無視野區插眼這點之外，其實沒啥衝突到的，考慮到蹲點的未必只有一個人，更可以說是合理的行為，死輔助總比死打野好。至於插眼離開團隊這點，你總是每三分鐘抽得出機會去插眼吧。又不是漫遊整個地圖插眼。----------------------- 在S4我們將有哪些改變？ 我們希望雙人線上的玩家都能感覺到角色成長、物品抉擇與全套裝備。為達到此目的，我們將採取以下方針： 增加不尾兵玩家的收入 給嚴重落後玩家額外的經驗 限制每個玩家插眼的數目 給玩家每費的視野道具（trinkets 個人暫譯「飾品」）。 除此之外，還包含了以下幾種新的收入來源： 給同線玩家金錢的天賦 改進目前的每五秒金錢物品，獎勵有效率的輔助玩家 獎勵哪些相較於取得擊殺，顯著於的取得更多助攻的玩家。 增加收入、獎勵有效率輔助，還有給予每個人基本的事也到具有於增進團隊合作，獎勵輔助向玩家，與給每個人一個機會參與視野戰爭。 -------------------------我估計免費的眼應該會讓gank非常難以進行，特別是排眼不易的情況更是如此---------------------------- 除了視野的變化外，上面還有哪些需要強調的： 首先，我們要談及助攻。我們將要給那些顯著助多於殺的玩家每個助殺額外的金錢。當一個玩家擊殺，他會暫時抵銷之後的助攻獎金。 除此之外，我們將會開發給予早期遊戲收入的天賦，並增加給予輔助玩家額外金錢獎勵輔助行為、掃除障礙物（？我猜應該像是蘑菇之類的東西）以及設定會戰的物品。 以下，我們來看看幾個設計中的物品方案： 閒（！）者之石將會每10秒給予金錢。當周圍有友方英雄尾兵時，你會獲得金錢。（看樣子我的中文有待加強，簡單的說，輔助持有物品，adc打怪，輔助旁邊白拿，故名閒者之石。閒者才能拿錢-誤很大-） Executioner's Emblem（暫譯「劊子手勳章」），殺害低於兩百血（血？血量？）的小兵，並給予你以及最近的友軍玩家金錢。你的友軍會稍微多一點。CD：每分鐘兩次。（不知道這說的是每兩次使用，一分鐘後重置，還是單純指CD是30秒？） Spellthief's Blade（暫譯「法賊之刃」）：你的普攻與技能擊中敵方玩家時獲得金錢（妙手空空強化版）。被擊中的英雄十秒內不會再重複作為處發此能力的目標。尾（他沒說尾兵、尾刀，我估計應該都算），會暫時讓這個能力進入10秒CD。 選擇適合你的風格的物品。 ---------------------------後面的補充有有關於這一段的補充，記得整個看完再評----------------------------------- 這些改變將會如何影響我玩輔助？ 在遊戲後期，輔助將會能購買鞋還有眼石以外的裝備。他們依然是視野爭奪戰的主要角色。但是他們將會擁有更多的戰鬥屬性，並且玩起來比較像是一個完整的角色。一個平衡的輔助玩家將會分配他的時間在插眼，幫助友軍推線推塔，以及參與戰鬥保護友軍，擊殺敵軍。 因應這些改變的副作用，我們將會檢視傳統的核心輔助角色，像是 Janna, Sona, Nami, Soraka, Lulu, Taric等。這些角色是根據目前環境設計的輔助角色。如果不加以平衡就直接導入更多收入，在遊戲中期，將會使他們成為過強的法師，或是完全被其他成長性較好的非輔助角色取代。 與其削弱這些英雄（我想應該是指其他的非輔助英雄），我們試圖讓他們的特徵與 ap 或是其他屬性連動。例如，Janna 的盾加入ad係數，與娜米的被動加速加入ap係數。我們希望看到輔助英雄覺得 AP 還有 CDR 道具是具有吸引力的。這會給予這些角色明顯的特徵，以強化幫助隊友、輔助能力，而不是單單是造成更多傷害。 希望這會給輔助玩家們新的期待。我們將會積極的調整細節，但我們的核心哲學將會不變「使每個英雄感覺到整個遊戲的進展，而非單單是指定的位置，或是角色」。 我們將會在 reddit 上放上這篇文章。我們將會在那裡略過，或是澄清某些問題。再接下來的幾周中，我們將會進行大致的概括最新的資訊與提問。 -----------------------------------如果輔助角色有成為過強的法師的潛力，那早就有人開發出來打中路了…倒是各種屬性與ap ad連動這點…嗯，我不大看好這個結果…無論是暈技還是加減速，如果導入係數的話…那不是前期過強後期過弱，就是後期過強前期過弱…盾之類的倒是本來就應該與ap ad係數連動--------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------以下是官方回覆------------------------------------------------------- [align=center]新物品預覽：[/align] Martyr's Call +300血量 +10回血/5秒 唯一被動：花費20％你自己的目前血量，給予友軍10％你的最大血量的護盾。這是主要給坦克的裝備。如果造成 Cho'gath 過強，我們將會增加血量消耗並降低護盾量。 -------------------------------------------------- [align=center]更新輔助道具：[/align] Xelnath 表示新的輔助道具是獨一的。你只能買一個。 這些新的金錢收入道具是唯一的。這些跳錢裝最終都將升級成很酷的主動道具，但他們最後升級的道具保持他們的收入機制。一旦你選擇了其中之一，你將不能買其他道具，除非你賣掉原有那個。 例如：我可以買 Philosopher's Pebble（暫譯「閒者卵石」），一個＄375的輔助開局道具，使他們在友軍尾兵時得到收入。並把他升級到閒者之石，最終升級成蘇瑞雅的皇冠。 但是，如果我擁有閒者卵石，那我就不能買劊子手勳章或是法賊之刃。一但你選擇了蘇瑞雅皇冠，你就不能買法賊之刃，除非你賣掉原有的那個。我們原先並沒有這類限制，但是Madlife 和 H4ckerv2 有一天來辦公室，並且購買了各種輔助道具並獲得了全遊戲最高的金錢收入，徹底的破壞遊戲平衡。 至於在商店的歸類。 他們現在有自己所屬的分類，並且你只能買其中一個。當被問到你是否可以用唯一被動來代替只能買一個。他說到： 如果我們這樣作，這會看起來很怪。 [align=center]（例子跳過）[/align] 除此之外，這些裝備除了跳錢屬性外，都附上了回血魔屬性。堆疊這些屬性並不是進入中期遊戲的好計畫。並且，讓他們具有獨一性，我們能將這些主動效果（我想應該是指最終升級版的）變得極度具有吸引力。 ----------------------------------老實說，我認為跳錢改成唯一是完全可行的。以後要幾種最終輔助道具之間作個選擇，這點還挺怪得…如果最終版輔助道具的吸引力真的夠大的話，我論五個人都購買一個不同種類的最終輔助道具之可能？--------------------------------------------- 對於一個嘗試在雙人線上購買劊子手勳章以增加收入的adc，他評論： 「我們昨天測試，並發現這樣變得很有趣與團隊合作取向，這讓兩個玩家都對於合作都感覺更好。因為劊子手勳章並不是針對adc角色設計的，我們預期這並不會成為唯一打法。太早的購買這個勳章會導致換血能力下降。 [backcolor=yellow]所以我們樂觀的認為這是對輸給雪球中的adc和輔助而言可依靠的特徵[/backcolor]」 他另外對於劊子手勳章補充： 「adc玩家會得到尾兵錢數+5，所以他們和你在一起會得到更多金錢」 ----------------------------------------黃色這段我讀起來怪怪的，我不確定我的翻譯是對的…有興趣啃原文的人可以發在下面與我討論意思與翻譯---------------------------------------- 在reddit，他分享了幾個細節： 「是的，閒石的被動收入將會移除或是降低，所以當你不在線上時，你並不會有額外的收入。 kage's(幸運匕首英文名首字，應該是說幸運匕首吧？)被spellblade（這個字在lol有兩個詞，一個是三項的魔法彎刀屬性，一個是月光魔劍，不過我個人認為應該是法賊之刃誤值吧？）取代。 劊子手勳章是觸發機制，當你的普攻有友方英雄在周圍時觸發。這設計成輔助可以幫adc尾刀，或是adc可以買這個物品，並且完全掌握線上小兵的流動，並把錢漏給輔助。 天賦：妙手空空還是存在。 物品成長線：（這段原文分段就很奇怪…我試著分段看看） 閒石升級成蘇瑞雅主動+ CDR 幸運匕首升級成真霜結晶，他的主動現在可用於敵人。 劊子手勳章升級成噴血加友軍護盾的長CD新道具。 關於劊子手勳章的補充說明：當劊子手勳章的持有者擊殺小兵時，持有者與最近的鄰近友方英雄都得到尾兵的錢，同時，鄰近英雄會稍微獲得多一點。」 ----------------------------------雙影現在不是從打錢裝升上去了。這樣的雙影，還會有人用嗎？-------------------------------------- 對於部份的近戰輔助會因為某幾項新物品而遭難，他評註道： 「我們大概會針對近戰輔助進行調整，就像是我們對妙手空空作過得一樣。近戰輔助有過興盛，也有過衰落，所以我們會多加注意。幫我們測試，讓我們能在S4修正問題」 -------------------------------------------------------------- [align=center]舊物品調整：[/align]對於雙影斗篷的合成路徑，他評論道： 「雙影已經不再是由幸運匕首升級上去。所以我們會針對他的價格調整。稍微的下降吧？但我不保證，如果他依舊強勁。 他同時也附註，不會有 gp/5道具備合成為不會產生金錢的道具。閒者之石，幸運匕首，和[align=center][align=left]英勇徽章將會從所有不產生收入的道具合成路徑中清除。我們將會將合適的道具放入取代他們。例如遠古意志將會由爆裂魔杖（+40ap那把）與海克斯科技左輪（小吸血槍）合成。」[/align][/align]--------------------------------看樣子，英勇徽章要改成跳錢裝了，應該是劊子手勳章的升級物-------------------------------- [align=center]其他[/align]當被問及這些變化與物品和殺很大的線上角色的時候，Socratocracy 評論： 我們很高興你能提到這個問題，這個問題我們內部也在擔心。我們看到雷歐娜在新系統有成功的經驗，特別是如果他能在線上領先。一個主要的目的就是改進其他輔助英雄的可行性。現在我們看到雷歐娜與家蚊4世（噗，好貼切都有一根長長的…好吧，常被關籠子，我就是要黑嘉文）成功的作為輔助者，因為他們和現在相比能更早得得到擊殺。這有點太過雪球了，所以我們會隨時注意變化。 但是，一件我們要謹記的事是，為了要最大化改進過的輔助跳錢機制，英雄必須投資大量點數在天賦樹：Utility（暫譯：輔助），也就是那些本來就該檢驗的範圍，例如潘森，雷葛那可以逼出線上，並拉開經濟差距。我們將持續檢驗這些殺人英雄組合，就像你內文所提及的，並判斷些這些給輔助的新物品與新的金流是否會讓你決定玩潘森、雷葛那，而不是那些傳統的輔助，而這部份是尚未測試的範圍。我希望增進可用的輔助角色數量，而不是消除傳統輔助者的可用性。有著飾品幫忙遊戲早期的視野，蹲草叢英雄要取代傳統的下路英雄並不簡單。 我們試過了安妮/布蘭德與荊棘/卡力斯，並且發現傳統下路組合能夠選擇積極的農兵，並且騷擾殺人組合。換句話說，我們並未發現殺人組合能一貫的超越傳統組合。 也就是說，如果我們失誤了，並且發現傳統組合輸給殺人組合，那就正如Xelnath所說得有關於輔助技能加入ap ad參數的計畫也許會幫上忙。珍娜的盾加入更大的ad參數就是類似這樣的嘗試。 我們內部將會持續測試這些殺人組合。並且關於你們特別感到興趣的新組合，如果能告知我，任何你們認為能夠在新體系下，有任何有趣，吸引人，極佳的，甚至是獨霸的線上組合，我會感到很高興。 链接到点评
theredeye 发布于十月 28, 2013 作者 分享 发布于十月 28, 2013 そらの空空 发表于 2013-10-28 14:24 好长，X看不懂英文，让人啃in文消息吗？ 等晚上再來，我應該就翻譯好了… 链接到点评
theredeye 发布于十月 28, 2013 作者 分享 发布于十月 28, 2013 WILDFANG 发表于 2013-10-28 15:08 这样改的话，感觉贤者之石这类加钱的也可以给单人路出……补刀渣的人的福音 ... 並不會…我翻的不夠明確 不是英雄，而是友方英雄…自己補刀不加錢… 如果自己尾兵就能賺錢，那要周圍二字何用？ 链接到点评
theredeye 发布于十月 28, 2013 作者 分享 发布于十月 28, 2013 a4206629 发表于 2013-10-28 17:06 新東西(閒者卵石)要尾兵的話那ad不是會有點拿不到兵嗎 （看樣子我的中文有待加強，簡單的說，輔助持有道具，adc打怪，輔助旁邊白拿，故名閒者之石。閒著才能拿錢-誤很大-） 链接到点评
theredeye 发布于十月 28, 2013 作者 分享 发布于十月 28, 2013 kar98k 发表于 2013-10-28 19:05 哦，闲者之石，这名字太赞了，S4开了我得找个补刀大神当基友 你為何不想著要讓自己變成一個能幫隊友變成補刀大神的超殺輔助呢？ 像是雷歐娜阿、雷歐娜阿、雷歐娜之類的。 链接到点评
theredeye 发布于十月 29, 2013 作者 分享 发布于十月 29, 2013 dx1985 发表于 2013-10-29 11:53 原本是要改掉EU 現在反而更支持EU 還要為SUP這個角色來強化?? 要改掉EU是幾乎不可能的… 因為裝備具有規模經濟…所以思考邏輯就變成，給定金錢收入不變（主要看技術），由最少人分配的效果最好… 然後就變成上中下JG四路，還有一個註定不能打錢… 就算你把野區的重生速度加快，怪物數量變多，那也是把野區劃給打錢那四個，而不是輔助… 你要改掉：一個人不打錢…那就是要改成裝備具有規模不經濟…整個裝備系統要重作…拳頭社絕對沒有打算把系統砍掉重練 -------------------------------------------------- 忽然想到也不是那麼不可能 助攻如果變成新的一路的話就可能…不過這個比較是JG在拿 不…大概還是不可能 链接到点评
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